Scott Eudey

Kevin Daisey:

All right, everyone. We are back for another live recording of The Managing Partners Podcast. My name is Kevin Daisey, I’ll be your host. I’m also the founder of Array Digital, where we help law firms grow through digital marketing. Today I got a special guest from Oklahoma, Scott Eudey. Thank you, and welcome to the show.

Scott Eudey:

Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. So you are from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma?

Scott Eudey:

Yes, sir.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s a cool name.

Scott Eudey:

Well, of course, it’s Oklahoma, so it’s steeped in Native American history. And Broken Arrow is the fourth largest city in the state of Oklahoma. And we are a suburb of the largest suburb in the state, but we’re the largest suburb of Tulsa, Oklahoma. You know anything about Oklahoma? You have Oklahoma City in the center and then Tulsa’s in the Northeast, and those are the two large cities. And then Norman, where OU is, we keep that, but is the third largest, and then Broken Arrow is the fourth.

Kevin Daisey:

I think football is what I think.

Scott Eudey:

Oklahoma has strong football history too.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, yeah. I’m sorry, ringer at my house is going off. Technology, you got to watch out. So I’m from Chincoteague Island, which is an island off Virginia and the Eastern Shore of Virginia if you look that up. But it’s all Indian names, Chincoteague, Pungoteague, Machipongo, we kind of have all that going on. But lots of Indian tribes and names coming from where I’m from too. So, Scott, tell us your story. What made you decide to become an attorney and practice law? And kind of tell us the journey you’ve been on in your career.

Scott Eudey:

Well, if you were to talk to my folks, they’d probably say I wanted to be a lawyer in utero. My mother actually worked for a law firm when I was growing up, and I spent every extra… After school, we’d walk down and hang out down by the… It’s a small town. So we’d walk down and hang out there, and I hang out with the lawyers. I mean, I was just always impressed with the work they did, people left there and they seemed to help people. Of course, I was younger, so I didn’t see all the roadblocks, but I saw the people leaving smiling and getting to go to court and help people and all that. And I saw that and I thought, “What?”

Scott Eudey:

One of the attorneys that my mother worked for, she was a very good legal secretary, he was the elder statesman among lawyers in the community. And if you needed something, well, you went to this person, and he was a great guy. And I saw how much respect and admiration he got. And then I saw the idea that as an attorney, you do things to help people. So I started planning that, and of course, I also had an interest in politics. It was one of those things that interest me. My dad was real active in political circles at that time. And so the two seemed to dovetail well, the politics side of it plus the lawyer side of it. So, gosh, since high school, I pretty much had a goal of becoming a lawyer.

Scott Eudey:

I attended the University of Tulsa in Oklahoma in Tulsa, Oklahoma for my undergraduate degree, and then went down to Dallas, Texas to Southern Methodist University for my law degree. But I felt home was calling, I made that come back to Oklahoma. And Texas and Oklahoma are pretty similar anyway, but Oklahoma is home, and came back. And I actually started… I was hired by a firm at that time called Ross and Associates in Broken Arrow. And as I mentioned, it’s the fourth largest city, but we sit between two of the largest counties in the state. There’s about four counties that are pretty large, and Broken Arrow sits in the middle, is in two counties, Tulsa county and Wagoner County. And so it’s a very growing community. When I moved here 23 years ago, Broken Arrow was about 75,000, and now we’re about 120. So it’s grown dramatically in just the last two decades.

Scott Eudey:

So I had a chance to come into this firm, which was at that time Ross and Associates, my law partner, Jack, and had a chance to really just start from scratch. This is the only firm I’ve ever worked at, the only firm I’ve ever developed at, and I’ve been excited because I’ve been able to help it grow over the last 23 years. Came out of law school, started as a law clerk just doing grunt work. Then I started working as his associate as an associate. And then interestingly enough, my law partner decided to run for Congress. And while he was not successful in his run, I spent the biggest chunk of that time keeping the practice alive. And here I am two or three years out of law school, but he’s running for Congress, I’m helping our clients, and I would do all the grunt work and he would come in for meetings, but it worked. So when the campaign was over and he was unsuccessful, we sat down and we decided to create this partnership. And it’s been a partnership since really 2000. Maybe it’s 2001, July of 2001, we created the partnership.

Scott Eudey:

And so for 20 years we established this… We usually have a staff of one to three clerical support staff, and we’ve had anywhere from two associate attorneys up to five over the years. Right now we have a… Of course, Jack was a little older than me. I say a little older, he’s about 20 years older than me. He’s in semi-retirement, although he still had his hands in the pool. And then we have a couple lawyers that work here at the firm. So we would be considered a small firm.

Kevin Daisey:

Sure.

Scott Eudey:

We focus primarily in estate planning in real estate. As our population ages, you’re seeing that become a bigger issue. And as the tax codes look like they’re going to be changing, I’m looking at Congress and the discussions they’re having. You’re seeing even greater interest in the changing tax landscape. And then we handle real estate and business law as well. We represent somewhere around 60 or 70 small closely held corporations or limited liability companies. We handle mergers and acquisitions as they buy, sell assets and merge their business plans. But it started out as basically me having an interest in politics and the legal profession. And that’s what you do, you go to law school. My interest in politics waned, but my love for the law grew and then just have spent the last two decades or so just building this practice into something that I think we can be proud of.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, it sounds like it for sure. And growing area, sounds you guys are growing as well. And you said you sit between two of the larger counties, so I assume you’re serving those in both counties. Is that kind of your… Yeah. Okay, excellent.

Scott Eudey:

We serve both of those counties, and then there’s a couple of other counties that are good size that we also help too. But most of our work’s done between Tulsa and Wagoner county. Then there’s about two or three other counties that we travel to. We can be at any of those courthouses within 30 minutes. So it’s functional for us to do that, and I’ve got good relationships with the judges and the attorneys in all those counties.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. Well, it seems like a good place to be then in between those two. And that makes a lot of sense versus being deep in the side of one or the other. So what are some of the things that you’ve done that’s been successful in getting clients and what’s worked well for your firm there? And it sounds like you’re really in the… I kind of like where you’re at because you’re working with businesses, estate planning, real estate. Business owners typically have a lot of those types of things and assets as well to protect. So it sounds like it’s a good match right there, but what’s worked well for you to gain new clients? Whether or not they’ve been there and you’ve been around for a while versus maybe some of the folks that are moving into the area, what’s worked for you?

Scott Eudey:

There’s probably three-pronged. One is this firm, Ross and Associates before it became Ross and Eudey had been in existence for about 15, 20 years. And then Ross and Eudey’s been around for the last 20 years. And so you’ve got a firm that’s been in existence in one way or another for 40, 45 years. And because of that, there’s a long history of client… There’s a lot of clients there that we are serving third generations in some cases. We’re serving grandchildren of clients that have been around for a long time. So that’s one part.

Kevin Daisey:

You don’t change firms, you use the same firm.

Scott Eudey:

Do what?

Kevin Daisey:

You don’t change firms, you continue to use the family firm. Yeah, that’s great.

Scott Eudey:

Exactly, and we’ve done that. A lot of times, grandpa, his granddaughter is looking to get a divorce even, and who do you call? You call us. And so we’ll step in and do that. That’s not our focus, but it’s one of those things it’s an area where we serve our client. And it’s largely about providing that service piece that makes them want to keep coming back. Then the second path to client and firm development is our firm has a long history of public service.

Scott Eudey:

Mr. Ross Jack was involved early on, from the time literally almost to the time he stepped out of law school, in the local chamber of commerce and in the business community and developing that and building those relationships with other businesses and other… So many of the clients of this firm are clients that have been around and are related to the chamber of commerce and the business community. We just built that over time. And so we look at that… If you’re going to work here, you’re going to be a part of that community service. So whether it’s volunteering for the local festival, whether it’s volunteering to serve on the local senior association board or the healthcare board or we serve on boards, we serve on committees, we get in that community service concept, and that builds the practice, right? Because you’re everywhere. People will associate you. “Oh, that’s the firm that serves.”

Kevin Daisey:

And you yourself too, town council and vice mayor.

Scott Eudey:

I was stumbled in and got elected to the city council here in our community. I was chairman of the board of our chamber, served on the chamber board for nearly a decade. And when my term I rolled off the board, and group came to me and said, “We’d like you to consider running for city council.” And I did and stumbled into winning, and then served as vice mayor for a few years. And that’s part of that service. And of course, A, I’m fulfilling that role and obligation in my mind, moral obligation to provide service to my community. Because if you’re going to ask the community to feed you, you need to be willing to feed it with your time, right?

Kevin Daisey:

100%.

Scott Eudey:

But also, it builds the practice. There’s a group of people who they want to be represented by the city councilor, they want to be represented by someone who’s involved the community and has that perceived at least connection to the movers and shakers of the community. Then the third path is largely as we develop technology, we’re building our presence on the worldwide web. We’re there, we’re building that website. We have the LinkedIn presence, we have the Facebook presence, we have a Twitter presence, although that has not been as strong as the… Most of our folks that come to us electronically come through the Facebook or the LinkedIn. And to some degree, we have that Google presence, where they Google and we’re there. We built those presences. And I think as we move along, that becomes more and more important. There’s a local website or a Facebook page, I should say, that has developed over 25,000 members. And all they do is give local information about-

Kevin Daisey:

Recommendations.

Scott Eudey:

Right, and so we built a presence with that, and it’s been very helpful. So, “Hey, do you know a lawyer in town that can…” “Yeah.” And so that technology piece it’s not going to go away, I think it’s going to be driven. And with the COVID situation and the circumstances we’ve had, people are uncomfortable coming to offices. The idea of sitting in a conference room, it’s not dead, I mean, that still happens. And in the state planning world, we have to have that meeting where we sign stuff. But the idea of coming and meeting with a lawyer and doing that, I think that’s changing. We’ve invested in Zoom and Teams and all those programs so that we can meet with clients where they need to meet. And there’s parts of that I like, there’s parts of it I don’t like. But it doesn’t matter whether I like it, it’s here, and you have to be ever willing to change with the community, with what it has, and that technology’s a big piece of it. Long answer, I’m sorry.

Kevin Daisey:

No, you’re fine. But I totally agree with you. And I think… We do digital marketing for law firms. So we do the websites, we do the how you get found and all that stuff. But I think an important thing, what you kind of led with was if you don’t have that reputation, if you’re not viewed as a good community member, you don’t have the trust factor built, you can be found, but it’s going to be a lot more powerful when you have it backed up by what you’ve done in the community and how you represent yourselves. And so then getting found online makes a lot more sense through Facebook or other means. That you’ve done good work, you’re respecting the community, they’ll see that come through, and then they’re more likely to take that recommendation. Or if they’ve found you through Google, they say, “Okay, these folks look like the best folks to talk to.”

Kevin Daisey:

So yeah, you got to do good work and you have to have good reputation, work in your community, give back, and those things will come back to you for sure. So, no, I love that. And the technology’s not going anywhere for sure. I think I’m ready to get back in front of people more often face to face as much as I can. But I’m in Virginia, you’re in Oklahoma, we’re here on a podcast, so it does make things interesting and easier in some cases. But yeah, I agree, I like to get back out and talk to folks and be in front of people if I can.

Scott Eudey:

I’m right there with you. I’m glad we have the technology, I’m glad we can do something like this, but there is something that meeting face to face is so vital, and I like that we can… And this process gets us as close as we can without that face to face meeting. So I like that we have this option, but I do think it’s important that having that personal connection is still a key part of any business plan or I think it’s going to be, I don’t think that’ll ever change. It may diminish, it may evolve, but it’ll never completely change.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. I think because of COVID, this is now going to be more frequent. But I think you’ll see people going back to a middle ground, a hybrid. We want to meet with people, we’re back in the office. But if we need to, you can’t come in to meet, no problem, we got Zoom set up in the conference room. You stay at your house, and we’ll do it from there. Or someone say, “I’m homesick today, but I feel good enough to talk. I just can’t be there.” “Okay, great. Well, if you’re okay, we’ll do a Zoom meeting.” So it allows us to keep moving and be streamlined, I think, in some cases.

Kevin Daisey:

And a lot of attorneys I’ve had on here to talk to me, some it’s been a blessing because they’re reaching clients further in the state that they’re in that they normally wouldn’t be able to travel to or didn’t want to travel to. And so they’re able to at least get most of the work done. And then if they have to go appear and go to a court in another county, they can. So it’s opened up… For them, they’re more efficient. They can see more clients, and it’s improved their business, I guess. So there’s pros and cons.

Scott Eudey:

Right. Well, with everything.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, pros and cons. So what is the plans… So your partner is semi-retired, but as far as you yourself, you’re young, you’re in your twenties probably?

Scott Eudey:

Close, at least give or take 20 years.

Kevin Daisey:

We won’t be specific. What’s really your plans? What do you see going forward for 2022? Do you have any major goals? Or maybe over the next five years, what’s kind of the outlook for Ross and Eudey?

Scott Eudey:

Sure. Well, I think, it’s… And I say this because it’s all subject to change because two years ago the plan was to bring in two more lawyers and expand an area of the practice, we’d been looking at a broader doing additional title work and some things like that. And then COVID hit, and it put all those things, so. But generally speaking, we are at a point where we are looking at transitioning into bringing in one to two more attorneys so that we can build… My focus has largely been on the estate planning and business practice, but there’s pieces of that even that one person and a couple associates can’t maintain, so bringing in that extra staff to run with that.

Scott Eudey:

I think you can never not be in a growth pattern, you can be in a slow growth pattern, but you need to be in a growth pattern. Because my philosophy is, and I think this is true, you’re either moving forward or you’re standing still. But most of you say, “Well, if I’m standing still, I’m still…” No, if you’re standing still, you’re falling behind because time moves beyond you. I mean, you’re either moving with time or you’re falling behind. So there’s always that growth pattern.

Scott Eudey:

In the last couple of months, the estate planning side of things has just exploded. And I think part of that is COVID got a lot of people thinking about what their world looked like. And you saw a lot of people get ill and pass away that you wouldn’t have anticipated. And I got a lot of family members thinking, “I need to make sure my ducks are in a row.” I mean, that’s a little mawkish or modeling, but it is what it is. I see something like that. And so that’s growing exponentially, and we’ve taken in a series of both estate plans, trusts, and will development in the last six months plus our probate practice has really grown because of the same reason.

Scott Eudey:

There’s been a lot of reasons we’ve had to initiate probates. Of course, in my world I’d like to keep people from never having to file probate that’s how we engage in the trust and things so that they can avoid it. But when they do need it, it’s an opportunity to get in front of the courts and keep that ball moving. So that part of my practice has just grown exponentially. And with that though, I don’t want to see the real estate and the business area be… I want to see that grow too. So bringing on staff to start covering that and building that and making sure that people don’t just see us as an estate planning firm while that’s a key item, but they see us as a full service civil practice.

Scott Eudey:

We’ve never been involved in criminal, but we’ve been involved in every other aspect of civil law, even bankruptcies and things like that. And I’m not excited about getting into that world, but we need to have a base knowledge of that, so having an associate who can step in and handle those types of things. And so I would say that’s where we’re looking at over the next two to three years as [inaudible 00:22:51] That’s sort of the short term and long term. I think in the next five to seven years, I’d like to see us have at least five or six lawyers staying busy. And the problem that I would have then is where do I house them? But that’s actually a good problem to have.

Kevin Daisey:

Not a bad problem to have, right? So, no, I think that’s a great, I mean, I think you have a great plan there in place, and it seems you’ve thought about it more than you probably thought you did. And yeah, I’ve heard there’s been a lot of growth in the estate planning side. Well, there’s a lot of different practice areas from stuff you don’t even do that I’ve seen and heard growth in as well. And I think like the bankruptcy you mentioned, you’re working with a lot of businesses, a lot of business owners, unfortunate that you might have to pull that card. But if they’re your client, they own in a business, you can help them with that. Then they’re going to be thankful that you’re there to help them with it. Yeah, but you don’t want to have to do it.

Scott Eudey:

Well, the old joke, when people run into you and say, “Oh, you’re a lawyer, can I have your card? I may need you.” And I say, “Well, I hope you never do. But if you do, make sure you call this number.”

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. Unless you start a business, I hope you need me.

Scott Eudey:

Yeah, that’s right.

Kevin Daisey:

Or if you need a trust or you have a problem because you have so many assets, then not a bad reason to call you.

Scott Eudey:

Exactly.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I appreciate you sharing all this. And I think, sounds like what you’re doing is great, and you guys are growing. And yeah, I love what you said too. And I think a little more aggressive way to put it is if you’re not growing, you’re dying. I’ve heard that a lot. Yours I liked was if you’re not moving forward, you’re standing still. Pretty much the same thing I think. But yeah, as businesses these days, we have to keep changing, growing, moving, learning new things, you got to try to keep up. If not, you are falling behind. So good on you on that.

Kevin Daisey:

And again, appreciate you sharing all that with us today. I do have your email. For anyone that wants to connect with Scott, learn more about what he’s doing, learn how to become a vice mayor of your town, he’ll help you out with that. I do have his email down here which you can reach out to him and connect with him, rossandeudey@windstream.net if you’re listening on our podcast. So that’s rossandeudey@windstream.net. Eudey is E-U-D-E-Y. So please connect with him, reach out to him. [Welcome 00:25:35] to check out your Facebook page and your LinkedIn as well and a new website coming soon. So Scott, anything else you’d like to share?

Scott Eudey:

Well, it’s been a pleasure to visit with you. I hope I’ve been at least giving a little bit of help to anyone else looking, working in this world. And I hope to learn from others as I watch future podcasts. Thank you.

Kevin Daisey:

I appreciate. I think it’ll definitely help someone. I think for sure those out there that there’s a lot of change going on. And even if you’ve been in business for 20 years or more, change, don’t be afraid to make some changes, tweaks, continue to grow, keep your firm alive, take care of your people and their families and your own. So it’s just something you got to do. So I think take that from Scott here. I think a lot of older, smaller firms kind of stuck in their ways and don’t want to change too much, but something you got to embrace.

Scott Eudey:

You got to be limber.

Kevin Daisey:

It’s a good lesson I think out of this episode for sure. All right. Well, everyone listening, tuning in, check out this episode, it’ll be up live soon on our website, thisisarray.com/podcast. Additionally, it’ll be up on other platforms, my LinkedIn, YouTube, and on every podcast you can download on Google, Apple, on your phone. If you’re listening in the car driving to work, that’ll be up soon. We’re a little bit backlogged I think on the audio versions, but it’ll be out soon. We’ll let everyone know. And also we have a newsletter which you can subscribe to, it’s The Managing Partners newsletter. We’ll be featuring folks like Scott in those newsletters. We’ll link to the episodes as well. So stay on the lookout for that. And if you need help with marketing and you’re a law firm, that’s all we do, websites, SEO, social media, all the above. So if you need that kind of help, reach out to us, happy to answer any questions. Scott, you can stay on with me, anything else you’d like to say before we say goodbye?

Scott Eudey:

Thank you for letting me be here.

Kevin Daisey:

All right everyone, thanks so much for tuning in, and we will see you soon. Have a good day.