Lindsay Freedman

Erik J Olson:
Hey everybody I am Eric J Olson co-founder of Array Digital, and we are back for another episode of The Managing Partners Podcast. On this podcast series, we interview America’s top managing partners to find out what they’re doing to grow their firms and to keep their case pipeline full. And today I have on with me, Lindsay Freedman. Hey Lindsay.

Lindsay Freedman:
Hey Erik. Thank you very much for having me

Erik J Olson:
Thank you for making the time. I appreciate it. Let me tell the audience a little bit about you. Lindsay Freedman has successfully represented clients in federal and state court in a wide range of employment and business litigation. He litigates all types of employment law matters for both employees and employers. Including discrimination, sex harassment, disability, whistleblower, and a wage and hour claims. Mr. Freedman has been named Super Lawyers, Rising Star, in both Washington DC and Maryland. Welcome to the show.

Lindsay Freedman:
Thank you Erik. Glad to be here.

Erik J Olson:
Besides what I just told the audience about you, can you give us a little more information about you and your firm?

Lindsay Freedman:
Absolutely. A little bit of background about me, I grew up in the Northern Virginia area right around Washington DC. And as people are aware of that area, there’s a lot that goes on in terms of policy, in terms of politics, government. I was always interested in the law basically because of my proximity to DC and oftentimes having a JD is a gateway into so many different careers in the Washington DC area. Fortunately, I was able to get my JD from George Mason University School of Law now Antonin Scalia School of Law, but in Virginia. Eric, I know you guys at Array Digital are located in Virginia.

Erik J Olson:
That’s right.

Lindsay Freedman:
So its was great to talk to another fellow member of the Commonwealth. So my start was over in Virginia during law school, I was very lucky to get a lot of litigation experience working at a number of different firms.

Lindsay Freedman:
My first firm actually after my one out year was a auto dealer law firm of all things, but that was a nice little introduction into a bunch of different areas of the law. Surprisingly dealerships deal with a lot more areas of law than people would imagine. That was a nice foray. After that, I worked in another law firm in the Annapolis area, because my wife’s from Maryland and ultimately settled in Maryland.

Lindsay Freedman:
After, law school I still wanted to save of the world. I took a law… The largest public interest firm actually in Maryland, Maryland Legal Aid, and I was very fortunate to get a great experience there. This was still after… Towards the end of the financial crisis when I joined Maryland Legal Aid, and I did a lot of foreclosure debt collection work. As has been the case, a number of times in my career, I was fortunate to have great mentors there and at these other firms I mentioned. After my time there I, through a friend of a friend, had an opportunity at a boutique employment law firm in Maryland, which I joined and then worked for, for a number of years.

Lindsay Freedman:
I had fantastic mentors there, which helped really craft and master my skill in employment law, which has become my number one focus now as an attorney. At that firm, that boutique employment firm, we handled all different types of employment law cases. Pretty much everything except for workmans comp we did over at that firm and on both sides of the aisle, like you mentioned in your introduction. We represented employers as well as employees in plaintiff’s work. After a number of years there and hundreds and hundreds of employment law cases I did decide to start my own firm. During this pandemic last year I started Freedman Law LLC, actually beginning of October of last year. So it just hit my first one year anniversary of the firm. I’m glad to report that the firm is doing extremely well and we are extremely busy and really making a difference in a lot of people’s lives.

Erik J Olson:
Good for you, congratulations. Definitely not an easy thing to do in the middle of chaos that we just experienced the pandemic. But there’s probably never really a terrible time to start a business because even during something like a pandemic or recession, there’s a lot of people exiting industry. And if you come in, it’s a good time to establish roots and then as the economy comes back up hopefully your boat can rise to the tide. Congratulations on one year.

Lindsay Freedman:
Thank you. I will say in terms of timing, it worked out extremely well. People know from the headlines employment law has been a booming because of the pandemic. We have COVID for one thing, businesses are trying to figure out how to do the right thing. Employees are trying to grapple with, how to stay safe in the workplace, what their rights are as well. In addition to that too, the other things that led to my decision were obviously the Me Too movement. I do a lot of sexual harassment litigation and then Black Lives Matter as well. I do a lot of just race discrimination. All those different areas right now, people are really looking for quality representation.

Lindsay Freedman:
I’ve been very lucky to have had the mentors that I’ve had in the past to really, really master my craft in terms of employment law world. I’ve done thousands of consults at this point in terms of employment laws. You really start to see the same patterns over and over again. In doing both sides I see how employers react. I see what arguments work best for the employees and really try to master or try to get the best possible outcome based on all my experience.

Erik J Olson:
In employment law, is it common for a firm to represent that both sides, the employer and the employee?

Lindsay Freedman:
Great question. It is less common. I will say I, since starting my firm, I have focused more on the employee side, on the plaintiff side, I’ve gravitated towards that area. I still do defense work as I mentioned, more for small businesses though. Less for the big companies and more for small businesses and use that area of expertise, use that knowledge to help small businesses grow versus representing some of the larger players. Which can create complex and that’s part of the reason it’s less common to do both sides.

Erik J Olson:
Have you had the situation yet where both the employer and the employee came to you for the same matter?

Lindsay Freedman:
I have had a few conflicts of interest cases arrive and of course we quickly identify those issues to make sure nothing comes of it. And try to really work on my referral network as well to make sure anyone who contacts my firm finds quality representation.

Erik J Olson:

What do you do to cultivate that referral network?

Lindsay Freedman:
One obviously referrals, as I mentioned. However, since obviously your area is digital marketing makes more sense to focus on that for today’s conversation. This will probably be music to your ears and I don’t just say this because you’re in digital marketing. Right now in today’s world, in 2021, having a quality website is so critical for new firms and old firms. I still hear attorneys say, “Why do I need a website?” It’s just shocking to me to hear that, if you don’t know, if an attorney doesn’t know why they need a great website in 2021, it might be time to just look for something else. Because that’s the way of the world.

Lindsay Freedman:
People find services through the internet and unless you’re doing, even if you’re doing business to business work, you still need a great website that shows the quality of work you do. A lot of people find me, I have a great referral network as I mentioned, but a lot of people find me online. And we have a great website that we work really hard to build and we work with quality individuals to put that together and it produces a number of leads for me. Almost every day I get leads from the website.

Erik J Olson:
If you could have a website that is creating those opportunities, that’s fantastic. If people are finding you on the internet, that’s fantastic. We hear a lot on this podcast about referrals and it seems like a lot of attorneys unfortunately that’s about all that they work off of. And I say, unfortunately, because there’s pros and cons with every lead source, but a lot of managing partners may not actually try to nurture that referral network of theirs. They don’t have a program in place they just hope for a referral. Personally, I think it’s better, no matter what kind of marketing or advertising or referral marketing you do. Is to have an active program where you’re going out and you’re trying to make something happen versus, waiting for it to come in. It’ll come in probably no matter what, but you need some sort of active activity as well. And it sounds like you have that with your website, if it’s bringing in a lead a day or more. Good for you.

Lindsay Freedman:
Thank you. It’s all about finding quality people to help you. I have a great team that’s behind me in my firm and I’m sure you have the same conversations with your clients every day. Attorneys, the big mistake I see is they’re not willing to work with great vendors and great business people like Array Digital for example. Just full disclosure I don’t work with Array Digital at this point, but I can tell you do quality work and you have tremendous clients that value you. When I had the opportunity to talk to you I jumped at it because you’re a smart individual that’s produced great results for a lot of people. Why wouldn’t I talk to you? Attorneys we didn’t go to business school we went to law school. A lot of attorneys for whatever reason are just afraid to reach out and contract with smart marketers or other kind of vendors. I welcome the opportunity to talk to you because I’m sure I’m going to learn a lot from you.

Erik J Olson:
I appreciate that. What are some of your growth plans for the next couple of years? Where do you see yourself going?

Lindsay Freedman:
In the future, in the next couple years we’re definitely going to add at least one associate if not more. Beef up support staff as much as we can right now. Obviously just a year in we’re not a large firm, right now we’re lean and mean. We’re able to keep costs down for our clients and be very cost effective because of that. At the same time I really want to grow and be able to help more people. Because there’s only 24 hours in a day and I can only help so many people just by myself. There’s definitely a market out there. There’s definitely a need, I know, first hand. We definitely want to grow and add more attorneys to the team.

Erik J Olson:
Have you had an opportunity to work on some of your internal systems? Do you have an intake system and a way of nurturing your perspective clients?

Lindsay Freedman:
We do have an intake system. I use a calendar system, Calendly to manage my consultations, my new clients that works extremely well. Someone reaches out to us through our website, we schedule them for a consultation, then we use Calendly to give reminders. Tell them what information we need to expedite the process. And so we’re even more cost effective when I meet with them and they already know what documents I need. They already know what the key information is to provide us ahead of time.

Erik J Olson:
I use Calendly as well to schedule this podcast it’s so convenient. If anyone’s still going back and forth to try to figure out, are you available on Tuesday at 3:00 PM? I would definitely recommend trying out Calendly there’s a free version. I’m on the $15 a month, all features included version. It’s really, really cheap. It’s a good system for at least establishing meetings. What about like nurturing those perspective clients? Once you have that first meeting with a Calendly, whether it’s a call or in person, there’s usually a period of time before they decide to hire you as their lawyer. Do you have any kind of system where you try to keep in touch with them? Like once a week you reach out anything like that.

Lindsay Freedman:
We don’t have anything too specific on that, but I always try and reach out as much as I possibly can. I pride myself on keeping constant contact with all my clients, all my potential clients. Eric, in my line of work, people are often coming to me in their darkest hour about to lose their job or having lost their job or hearing they’re about to lose… Feeling they’re about to lose their job or in some kind of whistleblower situation. It’s one of the most stressful things you can go through, losing a job, fearing that you don’t know how to provide for your family.

Lindsay Freedman:
We take that really seriously and when we take on a client it’s as full-time a relationship as it gets, almost like family. Because oftentimes we’re going to have to jump in and quickly assist. There’s not usually a lot of downtime between when they reach out to us first and whether they take us on as a client. Usually it’s right away and we jump in because time is of the essence. I think that explains why there’s not usually a lot of run time or a need for some kind of extra process in there.

Erik J Olson:
By the time they reached out to you they’re ready to take some sort of action. Do you find that they have done a decent amount of research on you or not much at all? Generally speaking.

Lindsay Freedman:
Typically, they have, and one thing I wanted to mention, I think that might be helpful for other attorneys out there looking to build a practice. Is, do not whatever you do, do not shy away from review. Because again, another mistake I hear attorneys say, “Oh I don’t really want reviews. I don’t want I don’t want to have that profile where then someone can write a bad review.” You have to embrace the services industry. You have to look for feedback and people find you through these reviews.

Lindsay Freedman:
I got a review the other day and I feel so fortunate. The woman said, it was a Google review she said, “I give them five stars, but I wish I could give them 10.” I’m not trying to brag right now, but that review will go a long way. Someone sees that review and it’s going to be super meaningful. Yes bad reviews can happen there’s no doubt about it. Especially if someone doesn’t want to pay a fee or something like that. At the end of the day you have to improve your… Again exactly what Array Digital does. You have to improve your SEO standing and reviews help that.

Erik J Olson:
Great point, totally agree with you. Reviews, are you incredibly important and they’re going to be left, whether you like it or not. Especially when someone’s upset they’re going to go out of their way to let everybody know why they’re upset and why it’s your fault. So to me, it seems like the best strategy is definitely to try to… You can’t stop that from happening and you also can’t take it off the internet. Google’s not going to listen to you or Facebook. They won’t listen to you, but what you can do is you can bury it under a pile of positive reviews that you’ve requested. If you don’t ask, you won’t receive, you can at least ask your previous clients, current clients to leave a review. One bad review and a hundred positive ones you’re in good shape. That’s a great profile but if you have one bad review and none or one positive. People are going to pick up on that. So good point. I think that’s really good.

Lindsay Freedman:
And also depending on what area you’re practicing in it could be even more meaningful because there’s certain situations that are embarrassing. People don’t… If you want a will, for example you’ll ask Bobby down the… You ask your neighbor, “Hey, who’s your will’s guy?” But you know, if it’s a criminal issue or if you’re embarrassed about potentially losing your job, maybe you don’t want to ask your friend or family. Maybe you will just go on Google. All the more reason you need those great reviews and you need to show up.

Erik J Olson:
That is where people go to find things these days. What is something that you’ve tried either in the past year or in your previous positions that you don’t think works very well anymore?

Lindsay Freedman:
I haven’t done a lot of this personally for the new firm, but print advertising for me. I just, I find it hard to justify at this point. There’s certain industries, I’m sure it makes sense for a personal injury billboards kind of thing, but newspapers, magazines I think that’s harder to justify. One thing that works well and like I said I have a really smart team that’s helped me. But online advertising can be very effective and we’ve done some very targeted online ads that have worked very well. I feel very fortunate that people can find me because I know the great work I do, but some random person just looking online, they don’t. So you have to.

Erik J Olson:
Are you running Google ads?

Lindsay Freedman:
Not Google ads. It’s right now a more targeted, a directory legal ad on top.

Erik J Olson:
So when someone searches for your service the directories may pop up in the top of the rankings in the Google search results. They click through, your ads there. That’s how they find it. I got it. That’s definitely a way to do it. I really appreciate your time. If someone would like to reach out and ask you other questions, or maybe they have someone they want to refer to you, what’s a good way for them to get in touch with you.

Lindsay Freedman:
The website is definitely the best place to contact us, and it is freedlawfirm.com, F-R-E-E-D lawfirm.com.

Erik J Olson:
Thanks so much I appreciate your time. All right everybody, if you would like to check out our backlog of other interviews with America’s top managing partners, that entire backlog is organized by practice area and state at thisisarray.com/podcast. And if you’re looking for digital marketing help for your law firm, my firm Array Digital can be found at thisisarray.com. We have an overview of our services, websites, online advertising, search engine optimization and social media. All right, Lindsay, I appreciate it. Thanks your time.

Lindsay Freedman:
Good talking to you Erik. Take care.