Narissa Juitt-Jackson

Kevin Daisey:
Hello there everyone. Welcome to another live recording of The Managing Partners Podcast. I’m Kevin Daisey, I’m your host. Also the founder of Array Digital, where we exist to help you fill your pipeline using digital marketing. Today, we have a special episode. We actually have a previous guest that was on The Managing Partners Podcast back in early September. And she had a story to tell and something to share. And she reached out and said, “Hey, I have something that happened to me as a managing partner,” and that she thought others would hopefully learn from, and be able to prepare better for. So, Narissa, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
No problem.

Kevin Daisey:
So, I guess this is a little bit different format, so we really want to just hear, tell us what went down, what happened, and tell us the whole story.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
So, the last episode that I recorded was pretty much about six to seven days before I was hospitalized for five days. I was coming down with what I found out was COVID pneumonia. And I was checked in through an ER and in the hospital for five days. And as the only attorney working in my firm and still getting phone calls, it was, I was thinking about my health first, but then how to handle the firm second.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. Well, and sometimes I think I’ve been into business for a while, but you think about the business more than you probably should sometimes.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right.

Kevin Daisey:
Because that is your life sometimes. And you want to take care of people and you just don’t know what else to do, sometimes lay in bed and think about work and business and cases or whatever, in your case, your clients. So…

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. I got a real big reality check. I had to get real vulnerable with my clients, which I typically, personable, but not necessarily vulnerable, and how to let them know that, “Hey, I’m sick. I’m literally like, cannot look at your matters right now. We can’t handle certain issues right now.” And the things that I could handle, I actually had to onboard a VA really quickly and have another VA work on some pending matters while I was literally in the hospital bed. Luckily I had onboarding material ready, and some systems in place so that it would not be as difficult and so I don’t think if I had not had some of those systems in place, like my intake systems, or some of the other instructional items written already, it would’ve been more difficult.

Kevin Daisey:
Hmm. Yeah. I mean, there’s definitely the power of systems and processes and yeah. Even if you’re a sole proprietor, and I think a lot of folks I talk to that, it’s a lifestyle business. They want to be the sole proprietor and maybe not hire a bunch of people. And I can understand and appreciate that, but if you don’t have some things in place and some folks there to help you, you really could be down completely and your business is at risk or your health in this case.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. And so luckily, I mean, to be a solo is not my goal. So I was work on instructional materials for a paralegal, for an assistant. And so, I had a very small amount of things available to them so it wouldn’t be as difficult as we were doing the substance of work.

Kevin Daisey:
And so you had something though first-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. I had something.

Kevin Daisey:
You didn’t have all what you want-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:
… but you started that process and you had some things in place, which I’m sure helped a lot. So I mean-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
[crosstalk 00:04:11] community managing partner, I would say, have some systems in place and have a backup plan. I mean, I do have other attorneys that if I had to be in there longer, that I could pass off matters to. So those things, I do have a contingency plan in that case. But to have a contingency plan, always, always, always. Because we don’t think like, as we’re working through these matters that in reality we’re so en engulfed in it, we just really don’t think, what if this happens? What if this life things happens?

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. What if about your matters, right?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right.

Kevin Daisey:
So, no, that’s a good point. And I think for a young attorney starting out or trying to go on their own, there’s going to be a little bit of time possibly before they can hire and get some help. And I think you made a good point there too. You don’t have to go all in and hire or get a partner and split the business, or hire a high level experienced person or paralegal. There’s one of the things that you do on a day to day basis that you could get someone else to help you with until you get to the next place, which may be hiring a few other folks. Maybe bringing on some other attorneys, associates and things like that. But it’s, there’s some risks when you’re by yourself.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Absolutely.

Kevin Daisey:
And no one else to rely on, that’s for sure.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. I mean, there are plenty of places like Upwork, there are military spouses overseas, or even military spouses who are attorneys who can’t practice necessarily where they’re located, but want to do some kind of legal work. And so, I reached out to my network and I got so many resources of individuals looking for positions. It was-

Kevin Daisey:
Oh, wow.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
… not overwhelming, but I was glad that the resources were there.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, that’s a good tip. That’s good to know. I wasn’t aware of those types of places where for your tip of work, but spouses overseas makes a lot of sense. Where military spouses that are in other states that may not be able to… That’s interesting.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
All right.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, thanks for sharing that. So, you go to the hospital and how are you able even to coordinate anything at this point? I mean, I think you had some [crosstalk 00:06:35].

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Luckily, I had a bit of a time before I was… The ER that I was in was like an ancillary ER, about three miles from the main hospital. So I had to wait for transportation. And in that time my husband brought a laptop, change of clothes, things like that. And so, I’m sitting in this hospital room, nothing’s really on TV. So I’m like, I could either watch Netflix, which I did, I did relax. I did make sure I was taking care of myself, but I did also make sure to set the away me message and send individual E-clients who had some things pending emails to let them know that, “Hey, this is kind of what’s going on right now.” And I have, I think because of my filtering process with clients, I have some of the best clients out there.

Kevin Daisey:
Nice.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
So that even though they are going through what they’re going through with their divorce and custody issues, they were completely understanding and still ask me like, “Are you okay?” Every time we talk. And I’m like, just to have a client just put us aside their issues for just that moment just to say, “Hey, how are you doing as the attorney?” Normally, we don’t get those things. But I have some great, great, great clients.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, that’s good. And I think it’s another good… A good thing you’re sharing there too, is that you have a process, a filtering process, intake process, and you have really good clients that when something like that happens, they’re not going to be going crazy, and saying bad things, or bad reviews or… They’re going to let you get back to when, or they’re they want to make sure you’re you’re okay.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. And I’m sure that there’s people who probably don’t like me. I mean, just as being an attorney, it is what it is, but-

Kevin Daisey:
Everyone love attorneys, come on.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. Like, it is the nature of the job. But I hope that we filter out like no A holes and we try to see, as we’re going through that consultation process, what type of individuals we are dealing with and what type of issues that they’re dealing with. And how they’re going to handle those issues may make a difference on whether we accept them as clients or not.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. That’s a good point. Well, definitely glad you are okay. And if I would’ve known, I would’ve sent you something for sure.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Aw, no.

Kevin Daisey:
But happy to have you on the podcast, glad you can come on and share this story, because I think it’s important, especially for those ones, again, that haven’t grown, or don’t quite want to grow, but which it can be scary and you want to, sometimes you want to do everything yourself, and no one’s going to care about your business like you do, or do as good job ever. But at some point you have to, if you want a life and be able to walk away sometimes and relax, or if you’re sick, you have to scale at least to a size that allows you to do that.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. There’re definitely a lot of resources about systems, and process, and trying to hire yourself out of your practice, or out of your business. Some things, like books that come to mind are like The Four Hour Work Week, or like I mentioned before, E-Myth and another just, yeah. Another book-

Kevin Daisey:
I got E-Myth because of you and I’m not quite halfway to through it, but I wrote that down when you told me about it and I went and got it. Just the audio version, so I listen to it on audio. I do better with the audible myself, but so far, it’s awesome. And I’m like, ah, man, I can relate. I think I’m past a lot of the first parts there, but it’s…

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
And a lot of us are technicians in our business and not necessarily owner operators or managers, right? So in emit, they talk about those three different categories of people in their businesses. And they often tend to, especially attorneys or technicians, they don’t come out of law school learning how to be the owners, the business owners, and how to operate in that way. We typically learn those things a lot later.

Kevin Daisey:
Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, I’ve had so many attorneys on here talking with me and it comes up often that I wasn’t taught how to run a business, I was taught how, or I was thought about the law. And next thing you know, you’re running a business. And so, there’s a lot to learn, and a little bit of time.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. I was lucky, I went to a law school that actually had a class of like how to run a-

Kevin Daisey:
Really?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah, how to run a law practice. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to take the class because of scheduling, but they did [crosstalk 00:11:40] one semester and I think in the spring semester every year they would offer how to run a law practice class.

Kevin Daisey:
Wow. Well, that’s nice. Yeah. I mean, most people sit there, they just… They’re kind of thrown in, or they have some mentors, or whatever. That’s about the best I hear. And everyone’s kind of figure it out themselves. Just had a really great interview earlier today with a firm that has really grown tremendously. And they look, I mean, everything looks just beautiful in appearance and their culture looks awesome. And they’re a hundred and something employees I think. But they were like, it wasn’t always like that, it was toxic culture, it was a revolving door. So it took them some time to figure it out. And now, they’ve got it to where they’re doing very and 40% growth every year, and expanding in other states. And now it’s about maintaining all that culture, and scaling without destroying everything. So…

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:

Right. I think once you get to different levels, you have different challenges at every level.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. I always push the book Traction, which I have-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Oh yeah. [inaudible 00:12:59] Traction. Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:
I actually got the meet Gino Wickman, the author, probably after your podcast, it was in September. I met him, got him to sign it, and got to see him speak. But that’s a great book, Traction, everyone, if you’re listening, E-myth, which Narissa told me about, which I’m currently listening to, John Fisher is another, he owns a personal injury firm and he has a mastermind kind of group for personal like injury firms, but he’s got a book. So, if your injury firm [inaudible 00:13:37], I forgot, I think it’s The Power Of Systems by John Fisher. I haven’t read that, it’s for attorneys for the most part, but that seems like a good book by an attorney who actually runs a practice. So, there’s just a lot of good resources out there.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. Definitely.

Kevin Daisey:
How to manage a small law firm, groups like that are invaluable as well. So tell me, and actually the one things you’re talking about, like the different stages too. There’s like, I forgot. I thought I’m not sure if it’s in Traction or not, but somewhere, but it’s the valleys of death. So you basically, you have growth, and then you, for whatever reason, you just stop, and you got to try to figure something out. You got to change something in your business you’re not prepared for. And then there’s another growth spurt, and then you hit another one.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah, I think I need to reread Traction because I think I’m at that point where it’s kind of growth and then there’s a, we need to pivot in some kind of way.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. So that’s just awesome that you have some help and you’re a little bit more prepared if something were to happen. But then, I think there’s other things too, like, you have a family, you want to go on a vacation, you want to take a week off, or two weeks off, or the holidays, as business owners, and I can relate to you on that because I am a business owner, not an attorney, but you got to, like you said, you got to get yourself out of the business a little bit. Well, you got to give yourself out of the business completely if you can, at some point and work on the business.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. And it’s scary. It’s like this baby, you don’t want to hand over your baby to people who are not going to really love and care for your baby the way that you care. But that’s part of developing cultures, and systems, in a… They always talk about this mission and values. And it’s like, if you are living in and kind of going by those things on a day to day basis, then yeah, you have people who are trying, who also care about your baby. And it’s difficult to do, but it takes some time to kind of figure things out.

Kevin Daisey:
Yep. I can tell you by experience, we’re a little over 20 full-time people and core yeah, the core values and the mission has been huge for us. We’ve kind of tweaked the core values over time a little bit, just to kind of make them better, but they’re they ring true. But Traction’s great for that too. I think that book will help you develop those. We’ve developed a system in house that’s kind of unique to any company where we use Slack, which is an internal communication messaging system for anyone listening. But we have a Kudos channel. And so Kudos would be, like if I work with you, Marisa, say if you helped me with a client. You just stepped in and helped, or gave me a piece of advice or something, whatever. And I could say, “All right, plus five kudo points to you,” and then I got to say what did.

Kevin Daisey:
You helped me on this issue with a client and then you saved my butt. And then I could, I have to hashtag which core values you exhibited by doing that. And that’s the way the system works. And we have, we’re kind of like coders, like Zapier masters, but my business partner makes it actually put it in a sheet. So at the end of the week, there’s a winner for kudos points.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
I like it.

Kevin Daisey:
And the monthly winner gets like a $300 cash bonus.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Oh yeah. That’s definitely an incentive.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. And now, and the thing is the money’s 300 bucks, but it’s the whole company basically voted for you one way or another as doing a really good job and helping everybody out. So it’s really cool. And we have about, let’s see, we got five core values and they’re at the top of the channel in Slack. And you just have to, whether it’s honesty, or transparency, quality, passion. So whatever, it may be, urgency, because with our clients, sometimes we have to act quick. So yeah, it’s been a really cool way to use them every day. Everyone knows our core values 100%. And I think the mistake that most people do is they’ll write down some core values and then the owner knows them, we care about them, and then-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Nobody knows what-

Kevin Daisey:
… if I could ask anyone on my team, they’d be, “Yeah. I can’t remember.” So think about something like that, where you can make it a weekly thing, at least where there… Or a company meeting. When you’re small, it’s pretty easy, but we have a company meeting once a month now. We restate the mission. We restate the core values. We announce the winner for that month.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
I like that idea. I might have to steal that idea from you guys.

Kevin Daisey:
Go ahead. Yeah. It’s been really cool and yeah, it’s just a way to make sure everyone knows we’re on the same page. And when we hire someone, we make sure we tell them, they make sure they know what our mission is, and that everybody’s on the same page. So, and if you do that-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Our mission and values are on our, I guess not the interview, but the form where we put out to anyone who’s applying-

Kevin Daisey:
Okay. So they know before they even apply?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah, they know before they come in and kind of… We’re looking for personal responsibility, excellence, and things like that. And if they are intimidated, or they don’t like the language, or whatever the case may be, then of course they’re not going to be a good fit. So, it kind of, it weeds them out really early.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. No, well, yeah. We hire and fire by core values and it’s pretty clear. And only our hiring process, we’ve got a pretty crazy where it’s a lot of steps. So there’s usually not a lot of people that get through the door that are just not good people or bad team players. But if it does happen, which is rare again, our team will let us know pretty quickly. They’ll come to us and say, “Hey, this person’s, something’s not right.” Or, “We don’t trust them,” or something. And so, they’re not going to be here very long, I guess.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Well, that’s part of the growth process. That’s kind of what I’m going through now, is figuring out the hiring pro… Well, not the hiring process necessarily, but going through and figuring out what my next hire is going to be.

Kevin Daisey:
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, we got like twenty something people and it’s still, “Okay, do we need to hire anyone? And if so, who is it next? And does it justifiable? How much is going to cost?” And then we look at that department, and if that’s profitable, there’s a lot of things you got to figure out. But even at 20 people, each hire is super important and risky. You, or one or two hires, your first one or two, those are super important.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:
And sometimes it’s all by error.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. And it’s important for me to make sure people are getting like living wages, and we don’t offer that many benefits, but the benefit of working at home, and being flexible in that way. So, until we are able to offer those benefits, I kind of let them know like, “Hey, this is kind of what we’re growing to, this is kind of what we’re working toward. And you’re assisting in that. And if it works out, these are the things that we’re looking to grow to.” So I’m not hiding the ball, I’m not-

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. No, I love it.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Opening the door, kind of letting them know what’s going on. Because I feel like when I was a young attorney coming in, I just didn’t know what was going on. I was just kind of there like, “Eh, this is kind of coming on.” And there were times where I did not get paid.

Kevin Daisey:
Oh, wow.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. And like, what’s going on? It’s like, “I’ll pay you later.”

Kevin Daisey:
Transparency, that’s our biggest one.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, I think that’s good. What you need, your first few hires is anyone listen in, you know in that right person, they believe in you for some reason and they want to go with you. And they want to go along for the ride and they know that they’ll be rewarded and you’ll take care of them. So you need someone that wants to follow you, they believe you, and they believe in you.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right.

Kevin Daisey:
Versus if someone’s just like, “Well, I just, I thought I’ll get all these things, I’m not going to,” you need someone that’s willing to commit a little bit and risk a couple things, but you say, “Hey, we’re here now. Here’s where we’re going.” And if you can paint that picture for them, and I think that’s the hardest thing with owners and founders is, you know what you want, and your vision is pretty clear, but trying to get the whole team to see the same thing is difficult.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right.

Kevin Daisey:
I don’t know if it was in Traction, it might be in Traction. I forgot what book it was, but it was basically like, it takes actually, I think it was when I saw [inaudible 00:22:59] live, it was basically like, it could take a year, two years, if you have a big team to… If you had a new vision or a new mission rollout, like you’re trying to reestablish a, it can take a long time to get everyone in the whole company to really be on the same page. You have company meetings every quarter, keep reinstating it, keep saying it over again. And in your case, you’re small and you have the opportunity to start that way.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. That’s the goal.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. Well, that’s awesome. What else is going on other than that, that you’re up to? What’s your focus I guess for the end of the year?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Kind of wrapping things up, planning for next year is a big thing that I am doing. It is getting a time where we are in Q4. So it’s the final stretch and kind of seeing where we were for the beginning years, and beginning of the year to now, and then planning for next year.

Kevin Daisey:
Yep. That’s great. Planning around this time is advised. I have a mentor that we meet with, and I remember we were planning like January, we start planning some stuff. He’s like, “No, you need to be planning in October.”

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right. I learned that like a few years ago, I felt like January was too late. Every has their plans already in place.

Kevin Daisey:
Yep. You were too late at that point. So no, that’s good. That’s really good. And you do a lot of divorce and I know that’s kind of seasonal in the sense of-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
It is-

Kevin Daisey:
… usually January, February-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
And I’m about to make another launch in probably the beginning of the year, so I’m trying to plan for that as well. We’re going to offer another service that is less attorney focused and more individualized focus so that those with uncontested divorces [crosstalk 00:24:58] Work on it themselves.

Kevin Daisey:
Oh, nice. Okay. I’ve heard actually more about that from a… I’ve actually had a few companies reach out that that’s all they do, is they’re not attorneys at all. And-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah, and it’s beginning to be a trend. And I know a few attorneys in other states that have something similar, Aaron Levine comes to mind with Hello Divorce out in California. I think they are in Arizona now, but they are looking at other states as well. And so, just offering something for people here in Georgia, just a small course so that they can walk through it and make it easier for them.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. That’s a good idea. And again, I’ve had a few companies reach out to me directly about hiring us or do marketing for them, but we only work with law firms. And they’re not law firms and I’m like, but you’re… So it’s kind of a gray area.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. It is, it’s a little bit of a gray area because you got those who can offer forms in certain states. I know here in Georgia, we don’t have that option where you can have a non-attorney do forms and submit them for you, but places like California, they have like, or Arizona, I can’t recall where it is. They have certified document preparers.

Kevin Daisey:
Hmm. Interesting.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Can’t provide legal advice though.

Kevin Daisey:
But you can?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
I can.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, that’s awesome. I love what you’re up to, you’re planning ahead and rolling out some new stuff, so that’s awesome. I’m glad you’re better.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
I am. Thank you.

Kevin Daisey:
Have any side effects or anything since then, or you’re good to go?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
No. And we’ve been lucky, my son and my husband were not, they tested negative and everyone else has not [inaudible 00:26:47] any symptoms, it was just me. So I got sick and then I had to come home and be in quarantine. So, I kicked my son out of his bathroom, and we just kind of had me quarantine into the guest room-

Kevin Daisey:
Made it work. I’m sure you worked while you were quarantined?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. I moved everything into the quarantine area. So I had a small like Ikea glass table and a folding chair. That was my office for about two days.

Kevin Daisey:
So COVID pneumonia.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin Daisey:
Is what you had?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
That’s what they called it.

Kevin Daisey:
But it was COVID 19.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Yeah. Pretty much.

Kevin Daisey:
So well, crazy story. I really appreciate you sharing it with us and-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
No problem. Thank you for inviting me back.

Kevin Daisey:
… I’m hoping… Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad to have you back and hopefully hope it’s a good lesson for folks listening, especially if you’re a sole proprietor or, I mean, you don’t have to be a sole proprietor, you could have-

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
No.

Kevin Daisey:
… 20 people, 20 people, but you haven’t really let go.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Right.

Kevin Daisey:
And things don’t run without you being there, that could probably be worse actually. So yeah. Get those people in place.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
That train can run off the rail real fast.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. Get some people in place. Get people that like you, they trust you. They love you. They want to work for you. They want you to lead them. Find those good people and make sure you can take care of yourself when you need to. Well, anything else you’d like to share before we go?

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Systems systems systems.

Kevin Daisey:
Systems and processes.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
And hire according to your values.

Kevin Daisey:
I love it. I’m on the same page. I agree with everything you said, and again, glad you’re better, and you’re ready to crush it for Q4 and then going into next year. So, well stay in touch and let me know how things are going.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
All right. Thanks, Kevin.

Kevin Daisey:
All right. You can hang on with me for a sec. Everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in for this special episode, we’ll have this up on the website. Narissa is actually already up on there if you go and search, you can filter either by divorce or Georgia, and she’ll come right up, and we’re approaching 150 managing partner interviews this year. But this second episode, you can find her by doing that same saying soon, it’ll be up on the website, at raylaw.com/podcast. And like always, if you need any assistance growing your firm, marketing websites, please reach out, and let us know if we can help you. We’ll just answer questions if you just don’t know what to do. If you’re sole proprietor, just starting out, I’m happy to point you right in direct on DIY or someone that’s maybe less expensive than us. Let me know. So I’m happy to help. Narissa, have a good day. I’m glad you feel better.

Narissa Juitt-Jackson:
Thank you. Bye.

Kevin Daisey:
Bye.